Hey all

Ok, I know on Gearogs we have a wiki page of items that currently aren't being added to the database. We don't have that here so I was wondering what the stance is on:

  • Newspapers
  • Product catalogues

Thanks
Dan

oh and add "Automotive Brochures" too that list (although I gave all mine away a few years ago)

Catalogs were excluded, at least for now:
http://www.biblio.gs/forum/1310-Adding-old-catalogs

Another thing I'm wondering are theatre/concert/movie programs. I only have a couple myself, and they are quite different from each other. The other is small leaflet with like 10 pages, the other one is more like a book and has about 60 pages.. Also there was a time when programs were done for movies as well, just saw some yesterday. :)

What about the leaflets/bookltes given free when you visit a museum or exibition?

My personal opinion is that all ephemera like movie, show, play concert and convention catalogs should belong elsewhere. The best place for these is archive.org.

My stance is also the same regarding "owner's manuals" and the like for everything from motor vehicles to electronics equipment. They belong at archive.org

I also think newspapers don't belong here but I honestly can't give a good reason why. I use newspapers.com and google.com/news for research on those.

im pro a very broad acceptance of printed materials.

i think distinguishing whats allowable based on the content is rather arbitrary...

there are plenty of catalogs or playbills or just things that are distributed or sold in relation to events that are of far more substantial literary value than kids books and whatnot..

i think whats allowable and whats not should be based on medium not content. all bound printed materials should qualify imho..

im pro a very broad acceptance of printed materials.

I'm not really pro or anti. Like I said I have only a few of these things - but I do know that there are collectors for them too. If there are a lot of users here that feel like they should be included, then sure, they have my support. After all, Discogs is very open to different kind of audio releases, and I think it's an advantage.

there are plenty of catalogs or playbills or just things that are distributed or sold in relation to events that are of far more substantial literary value than kids books and whatnot..

The values are always subjective... I have kids' books that I consider to have far more substantial literary value than some best-selling novels. :-)

absolutely agree about it being subjective, which is why basing whats allowed on content is a (very) bad idea imho.

That's true. :)

i mean, comicogs already throws a wrench in my arguments gears tho lol but yeh

im thinkin, if bibliogs is gonna go big, might as well go BIG! its not like we arent already talking tens of millions of entries with whats already agreed upon... the inclusion of catalogs, playbills etc doesnt make this task any more monumental than it already is, and the architecture is gonna have to be able to handle things that arent exactly books....

i mean, i wouldnt argue too hard for pamphlets, broadsheets and even newspapers altho i think it would be fascinating as well as a fantastic resource and for the good of humanity...

I would favor a conservative approach at first. Let's give ourselves and the site's developers some time to develop the guidelines and tools we need to accurately catalog the most basic part of our mandate (books). When we start to get all that figured out, then we can expand into other related media (catalogs and playbills and so on).

I mean, discogs didn't start out accepting every genre and audio format at first, and that seems to have worked out ok. So what's the rush here? Let's figure out what we're doing with books for now. When we get that reasonably worked out we can open the floodgates to the rest.

welp theres def no rush here but......

them floodgates been opened... Zine is the publishing equivalent of homemade CDrs with the title written in sharpie lol

& im all for it, just sayin whats already allowed is quite broad, this already isnt discogs cataloging only electronic music and not allowing mp3...

it just seems really arbitrary to me is what im gettin at :D and im gonna be such a pain in the ass when things are excluded based on content, its an even slippier slope here than at discogs... like, way slippy.

for example right in front of me i have a Stagebill for the Mozart bicentennial at Lincoln Center. its a full blown glossy well printed & the size of a normal magazine, published monthly, you can subscribe, has adverts, informative articles... and also the schedule of performances for the year... its clearly qualifies, but does it?

and i dont even know anything about these tbh, but im sure they come in all shapes & sizes & quality and there is no line to be drawn just grey... so why exclude them?

oh & also regardless of whats decided i think this is a convo that needs to happen and happen in depth, and its also a convo that im sure will happen again & again.. i dont expect anything immediate and im more than willing to change my mind...

this is brainstorming time, im not married to any ideas over here ;)

I mean, discogs didn't start out accepting every genre and audio format at first, and that seems to have worked out ok.

Except it caused a lot of arguments, having to delete releases, and all kinds of hassle... and for example, there are still rock, jazz & etc. releases in Discogs that have Electronic as a genre because people tried to go around the restrictions, in any way they could. I'm not sure if Discogs would be any worse if it had been they way it is now from the very beginning.

the inclusion of catalogs, playbills etc doesnt make this task any more monumental than it already is, and the architecture is gonna have to be able to handle things that arent exactly books....

Very true. And we're still at beta, it's not like we're going to have 1000s of books submitted on a daily basis.

To reply to one of mirva's points - anything we can do to keep the arguing to a minimum here for as long as we can gets a +1 from me. It's so peaceful and tranquil here right now!

I do see a concern in the slippery slope going the other way, being too permissive. If we don't have any restrictions on what is allowed here, we're opening ourselves up to cataloging every piece of junk mail and sale flier and doomsday religious pamphlet and Pennysaver. I would like to see SOME limits, at least at first. Of course, the amateur archivist in me cannot deny the value in cataloging even those types of ephemera before they disappear. But does it fall within the scope of this database?

Transmutation - your example, the Lincoln Center program - if we say that your program is a yes for inclusion ... a few weeks ago I went to a public memorial service for an old colleague of mine at Symphony Space, and saved a copy of the program they handed out there (with a list of speakers, songs heard during the service, and some quotes and photos of my late colleague). It was only four pages (a single sheet, folded) - probably professionally printed. Do we include that program too? If yes, does that mean programs from any funeral, wedding, bar mitzvah, etc. are fair game for inclusion?

personally id love to see every doomsday religious pamphlet but yeh, im weird like that :D

i dunno where the limit should be... i do know that my example wouldnt look out of place in a magazine rack, it would look like a magazine about mozart, its 64 pages long, has scholarly articles, has a ton of advertisements from luxury companies, lists the staff just any magazine... i dunno..

imho, i think binding may be the medium barrier to think about as far as exclusion...

altho weve already opened the door to Zines... and ive seen some seriously handmade zines that probably are less substantial, and might even have a smaller run lol than a wealthy kids bar mitzvah program..

but yeh, i think bound printed material is a good place to start

personally id love to see every doomsday religious pamphlet but yeh, im weird like that :D

LOL. Actually now that I think about it I wouldn't mind that too much either.

To reply to one of mirva's points - anything we can do to keep the arguing to a minimum here for as long as we can gets a +1 from me. It's so peaceful and tranquil here right now!

I know, I like it too. :) I think it's because there are no rules really, everything is still being discussed. Sure, we disagree on certain things, but that's just a good thing, because different views are needed. :)

personally id love to see every doomsday religious pamphlet but yeh, im weird like that :D

Hehe, we have a couple of newspapers of religious ramblings in the car just to give our friends something to read... They are not so much doomsday stuff but rather conspiracy theories combined with religion, including the government, satanism, ufos, etc... entertaining nevertheless. ;)

Couple of weeks someone gave me a free "lecture" about this: http://dcxposed.com/2013/10/28/deep-conspiracy-has-the-smithsonian-hidden-evidence-of-ancient-giants-on-earth/

But even though I don't believe in these myself, I do find them fascinating. I guess we're all a bit crazy in a way... :)

I must have had some old programs piled up somewhere! I will find them

acitu19 wrote:

I must have had some old programs piled up somewhere! I will find them https://forum.powerscore.com/lsat/

Ouch, is it spam that never will be removed?

Yeah, it's the same type of spam than in Discogs where a user is seemingly participating to the discussion, but then edits their message later to include spam links.

Surprisingly now there's a small benefit of not being able to edit your forum messages...

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